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Attention : to those who despise rolling for good stats.

2

Comments

  • TanthalasTanthalas Posts: 6,738Member, Beta Tester
    Shin said:

    (under the assumption that the BG rolling system handles like actual dice, which likely isn't the case).

    Yeah, I doubt it handles it like actual dice. Just go do some re-rolls on a Paladin. 18 comes up a lot more than its supposed to.
    Shin
  • elminsterelminster Posts: 7,534Member, Beta Tester

    ajwz said:

    elminster said:

    Tanthalas said:

    Only took me 30 minutes!

    I would have probably given up by then :)
    Pfft. Casual.
    Exactly! Having the patience to go through hundreds of rolls is the requirement to playing the game with the stats you want. When you keep clicking and clicking, your finger is cramping, your eyes are watering and your mind is swimming... THAT my friend is immersion. :P
    Its not really a question of patience for me as it is one of time management. I don't use ctrl-8, but for instance if I'm rolling a fighter I'm just not going to concern myself with his intelligence and wisdom possibilities after a certain point unless I have clear intentions to dual class.
  • MungriMungri Posts: 1,645Member

    Mungri said:

    CTRL-8 is boring, I like to roll until I get my own uber stats.

    Also CTRL-8 gives you illegal 18/00 strength on non fighters, which is no fun.

    How is it illegal? CHARNAME is a *SPOILER* anyway, so don't the normal stat limits not apply? Well it doesn't work that way, but maybe it should. You suppose it's too late to implement changes before the game releases? :)

    Non fighters cant have 18/00 str. Unless you play a half orc and pick 19 strength, you cant take higher than plain 18 on non fighters.
  • kilroy_was_herekilroy_was_here Posts: 455Member
    Shin said:

    ajwz said:

    elminster said:

    Tanthalas said:

    Only took me 30 minutes!

    I would have probably given up by then :)
    Pfft. Casual.
    Exactly! Having the patience to go through hundreds of rolls is the requirement to playing the game with the stats you want. When you keep clicking and clicking, your finger is cramping, your eyes are watering and your mind is swimming... THAT my friend is immersion. :P
    Child's play. Real immersion is more like having to do 50 push-ups before each reroll, forcing your RL self to improve along with your character.
    But what if you did the 50 push-ups and your stats got worse?

    Hidden agendas like this are why I avoid push-ups. Clicking reroll is all the exercise I need!
    FredjoLordsDarkKnight185DragonspearMontresor_SP
  • drsahldrsahl Posts: 65Member


    What's the problem with doing many rolls until you have some good stats ?
    I do not use ctrl+8 in BG2 because that's cheating, I just keep rolling until I have the most appropriate stats for my character.

    Why willingly having good stats ?

    Because this is a computer game, not a pnp game, where you DM - if he wants you to play for a longer time and do not cause frustration - will adapt the encounters to the strengths and weaknesses of your party.

    For instance, in BG2, Mind Flayers can eat your intelligence 5 by 5.
    You'd better at least have 11 intelligence if you want to survive two hits.


    In BG, encounters are fixed and cannot be changed.

    There are mods to increase difficulty.

    You are free to use average stats for your characters.


    Hey guys, why don't you cut yourself one arm and try to swim ?
    And wait, cut both arms.
    Why not adding sharks in the water ? (with both of your arms bleeding you'd better swim quickly before the catch you).

    This should be harder that way... And so fun ;-)

    Well I guess for me atleast.. rolling more than 10 times beats the purpose of having the roll in the first place.. (then you might aswell assign the desired stats without rolling) I don't mind what other people do however.. its a game and people can do what they want :D

    I can tell you this.. if I roll bad IRL and ask for a reroll people put a fist in my head (ok abit exaggerated) but you get my point..

  • Aasimar069Aasimar069 Posts: 803Member
    in BG1 you cannot ctrl+8 ;-)
    elminster
  • MechaliburMechalibur Posts: 265Member
    I try to aim for making my character at least as good as the NPCs that will be joining. Simply taking the default roll (on a human base class with low mins like fighter or rogue, mostly), can quite often result in a chaacter with no bonuses whatsoever. That really isn't much fun to play: flawed characters can be interesting, yes, but I like them with strengths as well.

    I usually roll for around a minute or two and take whatever I can get from that. That typically gives stats on par with, or a bit superior to the NPCs that you will be travelling with. Not that I have any problem with alternatives, of course, if you take an hour to play with perfect stats, then I hope you enjoy them. If you have more fun accepting the roll of the very first allocation you're given, then I hope you enjoy having a challenge ahead, or letting the NPCs doing most of the work.

    There's really no point in getting upset how one person plays a game over another. As long as you're having a fun time, then you're playing the game right for all I care.
  • SirCumferenceSirCumference Posts: 35Member
    Tanthalas said:

    Shin said:

    (under the assumption that the BG rolling system handles like actual dice, which likely isn't the case).

    Yeah, I doubt it handles it like actual dice. Just go do some re-rolls on a Paladin. 18 comes up a lot more than its supposed to.
    18's don't come up that often actually. Remember each time you roll you are rolling for 6 stats, so if 1 of those come up 18's that means you got 1 18 out of 6 rolls. I certainly don't roll 18's very often, and I definitely have never come close to 108 score. Over the course of replaying the game I've probably spent more time rolling for character stats than it takes to complete the game in 1 playthrough. (I've replayed a lot)
  • SalamisSalamis Posts: 11Member

    Try Planescape Torment, this is a computer game in which most of the situations can be resolved by speaking (and therefore having the best stats is pointless).

    A poor example, because without decent stats (particularly Wis, Int, and Cha) many conversational options in PS:T are unavailable; and your gameplay is limited in a way that a low STR game of IWD couldn't dream of!
    Malbortus
  • Dragonfolk2000Dragonfolk2000 Posts: 256Member
    Even with perfect stats I still encounter situations that my main character cannot excel at. Fortunately, this is a game where you are supposed to pick up other characters and I'm not talking about playing multiplayer games.
  • Aasimar069Aasimar069 Posts: 803Member
    edited November 2012
    Salamis said:

    Try Planescape Torment, this is a computer game in which most of the situations can be resolved by speaking (and therefore having the best stats is pointless).

    A poor example, because without decent stats (particularly Wis, Int, and Cha) many conversational options in PS:T are unavailable; and your gameplay is limited in a way that a low STR game of IWD couldn't dream of!

    On the contrary, a very good example I'd like to say,

    Because you only need to have one or two good stats maximum (in fact high intelligence and WIS/CHA)

    In this game, you do not roll for your stats, your receive 1 point per level.


    So you do not need to have a 18 everywhere, only where you want to have them.

    If you grind XP, you can end up having 25 everywhere, but it its a bit too long to achieve...


    In this game, if you are a mage (or a person that prefer CHA / WIS / INTELL), you will receive help from you party members to defeat your foes.

    This game is not combat focused, which mean encounters are far more easier than other games.

    Baatezu, Tanarri, Gelreleth do not use all of their powers ...
    Post edited by Aasimar069 on
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Posts: 1,114Member
    I reroll until I get the stats I want to roleplay . Most of my characters have high charisma and intelligence because that's how I wish to roleplay them . As for physical attributes, I try to keep them above average (14+) and perhaps a 18 for class attribute.
  • Aasimar069Aasimar069 Posts: 803Member
    Salamis said:

    Try Planescape Torment, this is a computer game in which most of the situations can be resolved by speaking (and therefore having the best stats is pointless).

    A poor example, because without decent stats (particularly Wis, Int, and Cha) many conversational options in PS:T are unavailable; and your gameplay is limited in a way that a low STR game of IWD couldn't dream of!
    Go and finish IWD with a full party with "9" everywhere. You can even do a let's play, I'll watch you suffer during your whole playthrough ^^

    In P: T, you'll have some conversation based elements where your strength, dexterity are handy, but for battles, your other characters are here to support you. You then can focus on your "spiritual" stats.
  • KirkorKirkor Posts: 681Member
    Who cares? Just play the game the way YOU like, seriously...
    elminster
  • SalamisSalamis Posts: 11Member
    @Aasimar069 I would say you're contradicting yourself now. I know that one doesn't roll random stats in PS:T. Your original argument was that you need high relevant stats in BG/BG2/IWD, and used PS:T as an example of a game that doesn't need high relevant stats. I pointed out that in fact you do need high stats to get the most out of that game, to which you've agreed. Therefore I can't see how that example helps your argument.
    Malbortus
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Posts: 1,114Member
    Each of us follows a specific playing style , and I must admit that I do get mad when I hear somebody say that min maxing str 18 and int 3 is okay, but it's not my place to judge . We have different backgrounds and the different choices that BG offers part of the success of the game.
    jaysl659
  • mjsmjs Posts: 742Member
    i've had games where i do it, i have games where i don't
  • Aasimar069Aasimar069 Posts: 803Member
    edited November 2012
    You do not need all the stats to be high because there is enough in-depth (by dialogue for "spiritual" attributes or by combat by physical attributes or by enlisting powerful party members) to choose your own way of playing.

    There is not such choice in BG and IWD.
    In IWD you HAVE TO (MUST -or whatever) be efficient, because there is no other alternative.
    But in BG ONE, there is not the need to be highly efficient (though you like to be good).

    Seriously, and perhaps I'm not masochist enough to find it funny, would you *really* roll a mage with 9 (or 15) intelligence ? Do you like failing on adding spells to your book ?

    I do not.


    Thats why I'd like being good a something.

    Like Kirkor says, everybody plays the way they want, but on the other side, always seeing people writing "You should not play with high stats" was annoying me - that's why I wrote this post ;-)

    Why would I struggle on a CRPG (where everything is already scripted and impossible to change/soften) when, on a PNP game, the DM can adapt his game to my flawed character ?
    Are your DM sadistics bastards ? ;-)
    Post edited by Aasimar069 on
  • Aasimar069Aasimar069 Posts: 803Member
    edited November 2012
    Lol :)

    Let's create a chicken with 18/00 strength so that he can kick the player's a s s with righteous fury !


    EDIT : you forgot something : Goblins are designed to die :)
    Post edited by Aasimar069 on
  • reedmilfamreedmilfam Posts: 2,193Member
    I actually don't pick the stats I want. I re-roll a lot, but weigh each roll until I find one that I think is workable. How high or low isn't the issue so much as what trade-offs I'll eventually accept and turn into CHARNAME. I enjoy the luck side of it, so to speak.
  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Posts: 1,757Member, Beta Tester
    I'd rather roll than choose my own stats entirely. :/ It's difficult to roll above 100 or even 90 with certain character combos. Setting all values to perfect takes that challenge away.
  • RazorRazor Posts: 415Member
    After more than 10 years It was on this forum that I heard about that "ctrl 8". If it depended on me such integrated cheats would be removed. At least make ppl require "mods, etc" to cheat if they are so determined lol
  • Aasimar069Aasimar069 Posts: 803Member
    Razor said:

    After more than 10 years It was on this forum that I heard about that "ctrl 8". If it depended on me such integrated cheats would be removed. At least make ppl require "mods, etc" to cheat if they are so determined lol

    There is no ctrl+8 in BG1, the only solution is to reroll until you obtain the desired scores.
  • Aasimar069Aasimar069 Posts: 803Member
    edited November 2012

    Seriously, and perhaps I'm not masochist enough to find it funny, would you *really* roll a mage with 9 (or 15) intelligence ? Do you like failing on adding spells to your book ?

    I don't like failing, but if there is no chance of failure, ....

    Ultimately, ability scores don't make a huge difference. The real difference ....

    Personally, I like randomness in character generation ...

    Concerning your 3 paragraphs :

    1 - Have you played BG1 ? There is no difficulty slider, you can't have automatically the max pv per level, and you can fail your spell scribing.

    2 - Why do you speak of level 23 ? BG1 grinding stops at level 8-10. Specially in the part of the game where HP and armor class and Thac0 matter the most.

    3 - I play with various classes.

    My mage shall have 16 con / 18 dex / 18 intell. I must confess, i don't like the idea of being one-shot by a Xvart. I have seen Xzar dying like this during my first playthrough, this was too hard to bear. ;-)

    My Rogues shall have 18 dex
    My warrior shall be put in front line (therefore with maxed physical stats).

    I do hope I have the right to do so ;-)
    Post edited by Aasimar069 on
  • IcallhimlecobraIcallhimlecobra Posts: 59Member
    Having unlimited re-rolls kinda defeats the whole purpose of a dice role doesn't it?

    The Bioware devs should have just implemented a set pool of points for the player to allocate how they see fit for their character.

    No doubt a wall of hate will come my way after this statement, but its my opinion and I'm entitled to it.
    Bytebrainjaysl659Lemernis
  • BytebrainBytebrain Posts: 602Member

    Seriously, and perhaps I'm not masochist enough to find it funny, would you *really* roll a mage with 9 (or 15) intelligence ? Do you like failing on adding spells to your book ?

    I don't like failing, but if there is no chance of failure, there is no meaning in success. If everything is guaranteed ahead of time, your strategy doesn't count for anything. Having a chance to fail scribing a spell isn't the biggest element in the game (and isn't present on normal difficulty) and making a successful spell scribe roll isn't "hard" any more than rolling high stats is "hard" but the fact that you could fail means you have to make some tough decisions when you find a rare high-level scroll: do you cast it once, guaranteed, or try to scribe it so you can cast it multiple times, but also maybe fail? Do you risk doing it now, or wait until you can buy a potion of genius to improve your odds? There are all sorts of ways around limitations, but unless you actually have limitations in the first place, there is no reason to experiment or discover.

    Ultimately, ability scores don't make a huge difference. The real difference between all 18s and all minimums is going to be most pronounced at the start, where super-high ability scores give you the equivalent of 1 or 2 extra experience levels, but the initial advantage fades over time: the difference between level 21 and 23 is a lot less than the difference between level 1 and 3. With average rolls, you are going to have a more challenging time. Whether that is a good thing or bad thing depends on whether you like being challenged, and whether you find the game challenging enough as it is, or perhaps too easy.

    Personally, I like randomness in character generation because it causes me to play characters I would never have picked if I just got to indulge my own fantasies and made the same handful of characters again and again. The variety brings more challenges and makes playing a more active experience. Playing a hyper-optimized character of the same type you've defeated the game with before is just repetitive.
    I agree so much with this!!
    Well put, sir.
    elminster
  • SirCumferenceSirCumference Posts: 35Member
    IF you really wanted to be sadistic you could create a game where you have maybe 5 dice rolls period until you earn more dice rolls in game. The way it would work is when you go to create character you get 5 auto dice rolls and you can choose 1 of them and make a character from that roll and you cannot adjust stat points. Now you have 4 dice rolls left. So you can only create 5 characters with this limit until you earned more dice rolls in game somehow, say like making it halfway through.

    Now that would be a hardcore PC AD&D game
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