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First level mage spells?

georgelappiesgeorgelappies Posts: 94Member
edited September 2012 in Archive (General Discussion)
Are there actually *any* other first level mage spells that scales per level and stay as effective as Magic Missile and Mage Armour?

All the others have weak damage and or saves that newts their usefulness. Please tell me I am wrong and have been missing out on a gem of spell ;)
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Comments

  • The_New_RomanceThe_New_Romance Posts: 735Member
    edited September 2012
    Mage Armour doesn't really stay competitive with level. All that increases is its duration, but the AC it provides gets too low (in the bad sense, not in the weird AD&D sense) for my tastes quite quickly.

    Identify doesn't exactly scale with level, but it is useful throughout the whole Saga. And never forget the terrifying Chromatic Orb, which is extremely deadly in the hands of a fast-levelling bard (but still useful for anyone).

    Dudleyville has listed several other spells as useful (http://www.forgottenwars.com/oogi/mage_1.htm), but I'm not too sure about the likes of Spook and Grease. They're not totally bad, but I'd rather have a generous helping of MM and CO.
    Post edited by The_New_Romance on
    ajwzBrudeScooter
  • ajwzajwz Posts: 3,673Member, Beta Tester
    Magic missle
    Chromatic orb
    Indentify
    Protection from evil
    Charm person

    Level 1 is better than most levels in regards to the number of spells that remain useful
    JaxsbudgieBrudeQuartzMoomintroll
  • HaHaCharadeHaHaCharade Posts: 1,095Member, Beta Tester
    Chromatic Orb is the shite. Burning Hands can be cool at high levels.
  • georgelappiesgeorgelappies Posts: 94Member
    Great, thanks I will check them out.
  • Roller12Roller12 Posts: 386Member
    What target level are we specifically talking about here. Level30? there are no level1 spells you realistically are gonna cast any time once in BG2. That having said, level1 spells are quite good! You will just not have the time to cast it, as good as they are, higher level spells simply have more impact.

    If spook makes in in bg:ee it will be the best spell in the game, period, this spell has a save penalty of -6. You can assume it to be a no-save disabler in bg1. Sleep is AWESOME, party friendly mass disabler. Blindness is a mage killer, enemies do not share vision, so anyone blinded will stop doing anything unless approached. A lot of utility spells, like identify and friends, other spells have rather situational use, but can be of use, like charm person or shield(immunity to magic missiles!)


    Magic Missile and Mage armor are actually worthless.

    GrandeCAnduinAnton
  • Roller12Roller12 Posts: 386Member
    Casting mm does nothing simply shooting at it wouldnt accomplish, and wastes a casting round. I see this mistake often being made, the actual cost is a wasted round, not saving a level 2 spell or something.
  • The_New_RomanceThe_New_Romance Posts: 735Member
    Magic Missile is worthless? I feel 95% of the BG community are going to disagree with you here. It's great to reliably disable enemy casters. It's quick. Its damage adds up when you shoot it at one target with three casters simultaneously. It's one of the best direct-damage spells against single targets.
    BrudeMoiraBelgarathMTHBestopher
  • Roller12Roller12 Posts: 386Member
    You know what they say about 95% of people?
  • mlnevesemlnevese Posts: 4,161Member, Moderator, Beta Tester
    edited September 2012
    Roller12 said:

    Casting mm does nothing simply shooting at it wouldnt accomplish, and wastes a casting round. I see this mistake often being made, the actual cost is a wasted round, not saving a level 2 spell or something.

    Not many archers can shoot 5 arrows in a round and hit them all.
    Post edited by mlnevese on
    The_New_RomanceBelgarathMTHKen
  • Roller12Roller12 Posts: 386Member
    edited September 2012
    @mlnevese
    ye, but the max number of images is 8 so mm will not get rid of it anyway. Concentrating any archer fire(since mages do have low ac) and then fire an area spell would accomplish much more in the same round. Not that it isnt possible, but you can probably count the applications of mm in such a way on one hand, since mm only gets 5 missiles at level9, and annihilated in utility by Melfs Meteors in bg2.
    Post edited by Roller12 on
  • georgelappiesgeorgelappies Posts: 94Member
    @Roller12 Hi, I was refering to the levels in BG1 / IWD.
    mlnevese said:

    Roller12 said:

    Casting mm does nothing simply shooting at it wouldnt accomplish, and wastes a casting round. I see this mistake often being made, the actual cost is a wasted round, not saving a level 2 spell or something.

    Not many archers can shoot 5 arrows in a round and hit them all.
    This and having a second mage fire of silence or blindness at the enemy mage
  • elminsterelminster Posts: 6,200Member, Beta Tester
    edited September 2012
    Roller12 said:

    You know what they say about 95% of people?

    That they are right?

    I disagree with your assessment that magic missiles is worthless. There are better spells to be used at lower levels as a mage sure, but once you are casting three missiles it is worth it to use. Which frankly includes the later portion of BGEE and all of BG2+Tob. Sleep loses its effectiveness eventually, but magic missiles is an easy cast disrupter which causes damage.
    Post edited by elminster on
    The_New_Romance
  • Roller12Roller12 Posts: 386Member
    @georgelappies
    In this case load up on sleep, later blindness. with a touch of situational spells, that includes MM or any other spell. I personally like grease.
  • ryuken87ryuken87 Posts: 503Member
    Sleep is one of the best spells in BG1. I also tend to ignore MM until I have at least three missiles, otherwise the damage is poor.
    Anton
  • fighter_mage_thieffighter_mage_thief Posts: 246Member
    edited September 2012
    Roller12 is talking about high level spells mostly I think. He mentioned level 30 mage at one point. The Spell Sequencer, Spell Trigger, and Power Words (instant silence, blind, stun, and death) sort of all outshine Magic Missile later on. Mind you, two of those spells can be loaded with Magic Missiles, although I would rather put other spells in them.

    When I first played BG II, what grabbed my attention were the Power Words.
    Here are some points about them.

    (1) Power Word: Silence works against any amount of HP.

    (2) Power Word: Stun will work up to 89 HP.

    (3) Power Word: Blind is any amount of HP, and with a 10' radius.

    (4) Power Word: Kill works up to and including 60 HP.

    (5) There are no saves for any of these.

    (6) They all have the same cast time as Magic Missile, but instantaneously affect the target, whereas Magic Missiles, and many other disablers like Sleep and Hold Person, have to travel to the target.

    There's also the fact that the Robe of Vecna makes a lot of spells instant cast, which trivializes Magic Missile to some extent (mind you, I don't use any of the items from that NPC because they are gimmicky--the Helm of Vhailor being another cheap item I avoid).
    Post edited by fighter_mage_thief on
    Brude
  • DeeDee Posts: 6,222Member, Administrator, Moderator, BGEE Team Member, Beta Tester
    I always load up my Minor Spell Sequencer with Magic Missiles, even if I've got Melf's Acid Arrow prepared. Nothing says "die" like ten unerring bolts of magic, and in cases where you're fighting a single target that's a very useful trick to have up your sleeve as an insta-cast.

    That said, Chromatic Orb is also very useful. Sleep, I find, is useful only until you start facing enemies that are too high level to be affected by it. At low levels, sure, it's going to end any fight fairly quickly. But at later levels, it becomes a useless spell slot. For it to be useful in BG2, it really needs to be rebalanced (for instance, allow it to affect higher-HD creatures, but with a bonus to their saving throw).

    Larloch's Minor Drain is also useful in the early game if you can fire off more than one per fight; the extra 8 HP is very useful. In the later stages of the game, however, four damage really doesn't do a whole lot.
  • DebaserDebaser Posts: 630Member
    Chromatic Orb, Burning Hands and Magic Missile are my go to first level damage spells that scale.
  • DebaserDebaser Posts: 630Member
    In fact I would argue that early on Chromatic Orb is much better than Magic Missile because of it's chance to stun....and that Burning Hands is possibly better because it can damage Trolls.
  • Roller12Roller12 Posts: 386Member
    Solobear said:



    MM is good for causing casting failure as it is instant cast.

    magic missilies are not instant cast. You guys are quite amazing in spitting out random "facts" to support wild theories for no apparent reason.

  • The_New_RomanceThe_New_Romance Posts: 735Member
    edited September 2012
    http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/bg2/character/spells/wizard/wizardspell.asp?lvl_id=1&file_name=MagicMissile.htm&title=Magic+Missile
    I'd argue that Casting Time 1 is pretty much instantanteous. I don't know whether there are Casting Time 0 spells, I'd guess so, but the difference is almost negligible.
    Post edited by The_New_Romance on
    BelgarathMTH
  • MilesBeyondMilesBeyond Posts: 324Member
    I don't know if I'd say Magic Missile "stays" effective, considering how it's pretty useless at level 1. "Okay guys, I did 1-4 damage! Can we rest now?"

    A lot of level 1 doesn't really scale, though. Chromatic Orb is probably the best one that does. Identify can remain useful. If you haven't got a Cleric to cast PfE 10' (as I don't believe Druids get that spell), PfE can be a great buff even later on. And I know some players swear by Spook. I've never found it all that interesting myself, though.

    Depending on how high a level we're talking here, Blindness can still be effective by the end of BG1 and beginning of BG2.

    Unfortunately, a lot of the really powerful level 1 spells lose their effectiveness quickly. Stuff like Sleep, Colour Spray, Grease, etc. All wonderful spells at level 1, and make the mage into a real terror early on because of his ability to incapacitate large groups. But later on, the enemy starts saving way too often to make it viable.

    I would usually cite the Bandit Camp as being the rough point where Sleep stops being useful.
    elminster
  • SolobearSolobear Posts: 55Member
    Roller12 said:

    Solobear said:



    MM is good for causing casting failure as it is instant cast.

    magic missilies are not instant cast. You guys are quite amazing in spitting out random "facts" to support wild theories for no apparent reason.

    It has a minimus cast time. My point still stands.
  • MajocaMajoca Posts: 261Member
    edited September 2012
    @Roller12

    I dont know what your beef is with Magic Missle but let me enlighten you...

    The uses of magic missle:

    Can clear many projections of mirror images at once (other mages, greater dopple gangers)
    Can kill off weak monsters if party is overun
    Can finish off strong creatures if you really need it out the way (poisonous creatures)
    Can distrupt a cleric or mages spell if not protected (I have stopped a mage casting mirror image with magic missle before)
    Can line up some damage to beefier creatures like bears, ogres and such
    Can save spells like melfs acid arrow or lightening bolt for better encounters
    Can be spammed in spell book as it is level 1
    Can be cast quickly due to its short spell casting time
    It cannot miss only resisted
    It is ranged which is always useful
    The damage it causes and the amount you can cast it at later levels is like the mages standard attack (like a fighter will use a weapon, you will not usually send a mage with his dagger into combat, his magic missle is his standard attack)
    It scales well compared to many of the level one spells
    its chance to do damage is reliable, though charm is my favourite spell sometimes it is wasted, whilst magic missle can always be counted on for damage deliverance

    For baldurs gate 1 it is a must have spell and you dont have to select it on character creation as the mage at the friendly arm inn always drops it as a scroll.

    I didnt use the spell much during baldurs gate 2, but it had its uses. but for Baldurs gate 1, highly recommended
    Post edited by Majoca on
    SCARY_WIZARDchickenhedThe_New_Romance
  • MortiannaMortianna Posts: 1,133Member
    Protection from Evil is underrated in terms of its usefulness at higher levels. Its duration increases 2 rounds every level, and that extra -2 AC and +2 to saves can make a significant difference in the more difficult battles, especially if you've devoted your cleric's 1st level spells to other spells.
  • DeeDee Posts: 6,222Member, Administrator, Moderator, BGEE Team Member, Beta Tester
    Underrated?

    I cast that spell before every battle in BG2. And I mean every battle.

    The 10' radius version is a must-have for all my clerics.
  • MortiannaMortianna Posts: 1,133Member
    Aosaw said:

    Underrated?

    I cast that spell before every battle in BG2. And I mean every battle.

    The 10' radius version is a must-have for all my clerics.

    I was referring to BG1. It doesn't last long enough to be useful at lower levels, which is (of course) why it's more appealing in BG2.
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