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[BG:EE] PLEASE READ - LIST OF THINGS THAT CAN'T BE DONE.

AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Posts: 4,819Member, Moderator, BGEE Team Member, Beta Tester
edited October 2012 in Feature Requests
As much as we'd all like BG:EE to be limitless, this is unfortuantely not possible. The devs' scope faces limitations due to the source art assets having been lost, contractual limitations and time constraints.

In light of this, it is of no consequence to request features or contents that is already 100% sure the devs cannot deliver. Hence, it is with Beamdog / Overhaul Games' endorsement that I hereby provide what I hope to be a comprehensive list of things that can NOT be done in, with or for BG:EE, in order to help you focus your requests on things the devs can actually potentially deliver.


1. The source art assets for Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate: Shadows of Amn and Throne of Bhaal are lost.

All the original area art, paperdolls, monsters and character models are lost with the exception of a few 3D models of monsters from Throne of Bhaal. There is nothing anyone can do about it. Therefore, it is not possible for the devs to deliver Baldur's Gate HD, and/or re-render any art at higher resolutions. Significant modifications to sprites, like displaying cloaks and hats, adding new/more armor styles, or removing the mirroring effect from BG2 animations, are also off-limits.

As per Trent Oster, the devs are currently limited to the existing animations. There will be no new animations in BG:EE, so it is no use to ask for them. Recreating character models from scratch and rendering them at high resolution is out of question, because it would take more time and resources than are currently available to the devs. Also, recreating character models alone is not an option, as they would look glaringly better than all monsters that weren't re-rendered; if something got redone, then everything else should get the same treatment for the sake of visual consistency, thus making this an even more demanding (and unfeasible) task.

In light of the above, it doesn't make much sense to request new monsters, as they won't have distinctive animations to go (and I personally believe Baldur's Gate already has enough monsters that share the same animation or a recolored version of the same animation).


2. Contractual limitations.

Beamdog's contract is for BG:EE and BG2:EE only.
No contract exists for a remake of Icewind Dale, Icewind Dale II or Planescape: Torment as of now. Therefore, it vicariously ensues that the devs have no access to any resources from those titles, including portraits, animations, spells, and monsters. Modders may be able to port those contents to BG:EE once the game is released, but the devs are legally bound to work with the Baldur's Gate saga resources alone.

The contract prevents Beamdog / Overhaul to alter the original game contents heavy handedly.

This is what Trent Oster had to say about it on the official Beamdog forum:

"1. Altering the dialog of the old joinable characters

-We can't do this

2. Altering the dialog of encounterable npc's in the campaign, including minor ones

-small scale text only changes are possible.

3. Adding new encounters to the old maps

-possible

4. Relocating encounters on the old maps

-possible, but at risk of introducing bugs

5. Retuning difficulty of old encounters, at the level of content rather than engine

-possible, again content tweaking risks adding bugs.

6. Adding/removing/moving gear in old encounters/npcs/containers.

-Again, possible, but adding risks adding bugs.

Our stance is to try and avoid too much meddling in the original content and focus our efforts on the new content."



Beamdog / Overhaul also face contractual limitations regarding the addition of new content to the existing games. They can build new content as "expansions", but they cannot add to the core content in the main title. This limitation is due to the contracts for the original source content and limit the devs from adding new conversation for existing characters to the main game. Hence, adding banters, inerjections and romances to the original cast of characters is unfortunately not feasible. They will interact with new NPCs and react to new situations and areas, but that's about it.


3. Time constraints.

BG:EE is scheduled for release by the end of the summer, which will occur on 28th November 2012.

It is therefore apparent that the time left at the devs' disposal isn't much. They are currently working really, really, and I mean REALLY hard (trust me on this, I'm a Doctor) (actually, a Doctor and a BG:EE beta tester) on fixing outstanding bugs, overcoming existing engine limitations and building the new GUI. They will likely have little time left to implement new features.

If what you have in mind is particularly big and/or time consuming, consider requesting it here as a post-ship DLC feature.

Post edited by AndreaColombo on
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Comments

  • ajwzajwz Posts: 3,705Member, Beta Tester
    That was interesting and informative, particularly the part about the source are and animations.
    A quick question though:
    One of the art problems in the original games was the mirrored sprite issue - a player character facing left or right would have thier weapon and shield swap hand on thier character depending upon which direction they face. Does the restriction you describe above prevent you from fixing this issue, given that it would be the restyling of an existing animation?
  • TanthalasTanthalas Posts: 6,738Member, Beta Tester
    @ajwz

    Just to be clear, me and AndreaColombo aren't a part of Overhaul, we're just volunteers.

    But to answer your question, yes, without the original art assets the only way to remove the mirroring off the BG2 animations would be to redraw them scratch, which unfortunately, isn't something that Overhaul could reasonably do with this project.
    MagusTheGibbonTurnipTheGenerator
  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Posts: 4,819Member, Moderator, BGEE Team Member, Beta Tester
    edited July 2012
    @Tanthalas beat me to it ;-)
    Post edited by AndreaColombo on
  • powerfulallypowerfulally Posts: 261Member, Moderator, Beta Tester
    @AndreaColombo Thanks for posting. That surely made things brighter regarding the existing content. Looking forward to this game even more, we can all see how "Fixed" bugs section grows every day and that the old code must be painful to watch at and working on it is probably very hard. Damn every single person who will pirate this game.
    BhryaenGLenRythgarsimich
  • ajwzajwz Posts: 3,705Member, Beta Tester
    @Tanthalas
    Thanks for clearing that up.

    The devs only have the rights for BG1 and BG2 so, I would assume no stealing monster sprites from IWD and PST, but presumably they could swipe assets from BG2 and put them into the new content for bg1? Especially since they will now be using the same engine.
  • TanthalasTanthalas Posts: 6,738Member, Beta Tester
    @ajwz

    I imagine that using BG2 art assets in BGEE is ok (at least for the new content).
    MagusTheGibbonTurnipTheGenerator
  • gesellegeselle Posts: 291Member
    @Time constraints, What is that all about? I'd rather wait for another year or two for completely redone version. And the zoom feature, what is that for if the game is not in HD? What can we expect from this re-release of the best game ever made, huh? Bugfixes - Honestly, I don't care. Sorry if this post appears relatively depressed, but be assured, after reading this I am. @AndreaColombo 's post practically destroyed my every expectation for this release. Thanks for clearing things up though. So the question remains: what does this EE provide then?
    Ipad and mac version, new adventure, at least one new NPC, and possibly new comments from existing NPCs on new content. Zoom might be in, too. Oh shouldn't forget DLCs.
  • gesellegeselle Posts: 291Member
    Check my comments and you'll see.
    JeffTheDog
  • elminsterelminster Posts: 7,956Member, Beta Tester
    Thanks for posting this.
  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Posts: 4,819Member, Moderator, BGEE Team Member, Beta Tester
    @niklas - Don't worry, I completely understand you as BG is also my all time favorite game, and the only game I've kept playing after getting tired of videogames altogether. I, too, want BG:EE to be the best it can be and succeed. Hopefully, the list of confirmed features and enhancements will revive your hopes :-)
    niklasLallilejuustoJeffTheDogTheGrapeTyphlosion
  • gesellegeselle Posts: 291Member
    edited July 2012
    Unfortunenately Beamdog are tied to a fucked up contract, thus lowering the number of potential customers. I don't blame Beamdod/Trent etc. Guess it was the only way to do anything with the BG series.
    Btw.: I'm really disappointed but this is a dilemma. It's buying this game and supporting further overhauled games, on the other hand it's not that much content i care about.

    Edit: The NPC project for Baldur's Gate 1 felt very strange. The writing somehow didn't fit, and it had loads of content, so it turned the tables between BG1 and 2.
    Post edited by geselle on
    RLHTaylortena
  • mch202mch202 Posts: 1,353Member
    edited July 2012
    I guess everyone wants their piece of the pie... when BG is involved with so many companys, It is the only way.
    unless of course you have couple of M$ spare to buy the rights and donate it to Beamdog ;-)

    I say lets blame WotC, we have got to blame someone :D
    Post edited by mch202 on
    LamminbergLallilejuusto
  • niklasniklas Posts: 18Member
    @Everyone Thanks for being this supportive, I truly feel that you understand my feelings on the matter. Suppose this is what a forum is for.
    @Winthal "devs eat food too, presumably" I always seem to forget that bit since your characters don't have to. :)
    @Tanthalas I really, really hope so. It has been my dream for 7-8 years now. And I ensure you, I have every intention of buying this game regardless of the price.
    @mch202 If BG3 would happen, it would be the happiest moment of my existence.
    LallilejuustoLamminbergJeffTheDog
  • paulsifer42paulsifer42 Posts: 267Member
    I'm really not surprised by any of this. After following KOA Reckoning, I've come to (kind of) understand how this whole game making thing works, and I knew most of what was being discussed on the forum wasn't possible (including things the OP didn't list), but I still think they're okay to discuss. If Beamdog is smart (and I think they are) they'll be reading what we discuss, not to put in BG:EE, but in BG III.
    looter
  • NWN_babaYagaNWN_babaYaga Posts: 645Member
    character models:D
  • lordkimlordkim Posts: 877Member
    Well im for once glad for a updated game. New content, modders who are actually working with the org. staff, just the fact that the future looks bright for a new game from people, who have dedicated most of their lifes for this "world".
    So if people seems to underestimate the work or the love to the game these people have, perhaps its the wrong forum to be in.
  • ShapiroKeatsDarkMageShapiroKeatsDarkMage Posts: 839Member
    Thanks for the info. I'm not worried about those.
    powerfulallykingcrowley
  • paulsifer42paulsifer42 Posts: 267Member
    @powerfulally I completely agree with you here. To be honest, I was just excited that I'd get to buy the game (I'm mostly a console gamer, so I didn't know about GOG until recently), when I thought I wouldn't be able to. The new content is the only thing that's making me wait to buy it from beamdog instead of GOG, well and that from what little I've seen, they seem like the group I want making BGIII, meaning that they need money from this project now.
    mch202powerfulally
  • ZaccaroZaccaro Posts: 39Member
    We have made them *know* about the sore need of pure rogues in the game.. They are also in the knowing what we want from the collector's edition. And many many more things we wish from the game as well. For example what @powerfulally said.
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