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What BGEE2 needs to do to be successful

ghostowlghostowl Posts: 165Member
Fans bought BGEE because they hoped that it would lead to BGEE2. BGEE was also a big improvement over Vanilla BG because it brought in BG2 style kit system into the game. Even with new quests, NPCs, UI, improved visuals, BG2 system, lots of PC fans questioned whether they should buy it or not because pre-existing mods did the same. (Tablet-owners, on the other hand, bought it easily. )

So when BGEE2 is released, what should the team work on, in order to get successful sales from the PC market?


Things BG2EE NEEDS to do:

New Storyline.

The contract for BGEE2 might be the same as BGEE; meaning they are not allowed to edit or add to the original story. The team needs to find a way to overcome that, or add a bunch of new quests that add up to a grand adventure on its own, much more than the Black Pits offered by BGEE.
I cannot stress hard enough on new storyline. Veterans are not going to play the same game with a few new NPCs, weapons, UI, if there is no new storyline. BG:EE did as little as possible in terms of storyline but that was acceptable because it brought over BG2 style kits/gameplay that required tutu mod and annoying tweaking. The team needs to try to make some sort of new quests and gameplay factor that will intice old players to want to spend money for the game again.



New monsters / New Difficulty

Games, in general, are considered more enjoyable when its very hard, rather than very easy. Like what Ascension mod and SCSII had done for BG2, BG2EE should drastically make some bosses much harder (especially demogorgon) and Irenicus. I suggest introduction of new monsters that are very challenging. Not only challenging but these monsters should be interesting. Perhaps the drow-spider from IWD series can be brought back here. Or maybe Chimeras, or nine-headed dragons or something.


New Kits

A HUGE part of replayability for BG2 are the kits themselves. People spend hours trying out new cleric, or new multi-class. I suggest these new kits should be a little bit overpowered, so that people might really be inclined to play them. (If they were underpowered, people would just say, cool, but not play it) Suggestions for new kits would be, a druidic class that has a theme of embracing fire. Perhaps that druid class can cast fireball, sunfire in later levels and have immunity to fire as an advantage. Perhaps even the ability to shapeshift into a dragon at level 30 or something. Or another class like mage that can summon skeletons from dead bodies like real necromancers, and perhaps be able to summon incredibly fearsome demons at higher levels to fight for you.



New Areas

Seeing as how many veteran BG2 players complain about how linear the game is, new areas that are interesting (not a bunch of forest maps) would give the game more life and make it seem bigger. Players would be excited to try out new places. But these new areas need to give something to the player in order to attract them. For example, new powerful weapons, or new quests.



Tweaks, Bug Fixes, Modifications

It would be nice to see the team incorporate some famous mods that are out there, like BG2 fixpack. Additionally, giving blackguard kit a evil counterpart for Cromseyr (spelling wrong) would be a good idea. Give some kind of closure and twists to the existing stuff. Add different HLAs for archers, monks, ranger, etc.



I think doing all things I suggested above would lead to very strong sales for BG2 among PC players. It would polish an already incredible game into something even better. I feel like there were many veteran players that felt alienated and largely ignored for BGEE and thus, did not end up buying the game. I know it means a lot of work, but it would also ensure fans that the team is more interested in perfecting a legendary game rather than milking a beloved series. BG2EE cannot be given the amount of work that BGEE has been given, especially because the most inticing factors for BGEE was the fact that they brought in a lot of stuff from BG2. I'd like to hear what the community thinks about this. Please add your suggestions as well if you have any.










Post edited by ghostowl on
ArchaosDrakeloreShapiroKeatsDarkMage
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Comments

  • kingthrallkingthrall Posts: 76Member
    I would of posted something similar on this forum but I have not because the permissions required will never be given. Too much Ignorance towards gaming communities and more focused on making money which is why BGEE had features separate such as the black pits from baldurs gate in the first place.
  • DinoDinDinoDin Posts: 37Member
    I think some fans are being too ambitious, and almost silly with some requests, but whatev. I mean, morphing into a dragon? How would that even work, considering the dragon size?

    In terms of added content I think instead... a more realistic focus should be on a short list of things...

    1. obviously apply the fixpack, and bg2 unfinished business.
    2. ascension a good suggestion
    3. add sidequests for all the npcs who didnt get one -- minsc (from ub), aerie, viconia -- possibly add more content for haerdalis, yoshimo, imoen, and the ToB npc in terms of personal sidequest, also return valygar romance
    4. add side content to forest areas in chapter 6
    5. add side content/areas to ToB
    6. In addition to rasaad, dorn, and neera, add 2 more npcs, w/ at least 1 being a thief.
    7. add new magic treasures such as in bg1
    8. since all this new content will give the player more xp/treasure/better npcs -- boost some of the main plot fights a little in difficulty.

    i think it's more helpful to make a doable list of suggestions, then just firing off vast wishlists.
    SCARY_WIZARD
  • TheCoffeeGodTheCoffeeGod Posts: 376Member
    edited February 2013
    ghostowl said:

    Fans bought BGEE because they hoped that it would lead to BGEE2.

    This is not even remotely true.
    An EE of BGII was announced at the very begining and as such, was contractually guarenteed into fruition, whether BGEE bombed or not.


    Post edited by TheCoffeeGod on
    GodKaiserHelljaysl659toanwrathBelgarathMTH
  • Jean_LucJean_Luc Posts: 227Member
    All I know is I won't be pre-ordering again.
    diggerb
  • MykraMykra Posts: 222Member
    ghostowl said:


    Things BG2EE NEEDS to do:

    New Storyline.
    New monsters / New Difficulty
    New Kits
    New Areas
    Tweaks, Bug Fixes, Modifications

    My biggest hope is now that they have some of the larger modders from the Infinity scene working/helping them, I would hope that BG2:EE would be mod ready pretty much from launch. It stinks that I still can't use BG1NPC or SCS with BG:EE, and is keeping me playing TuTu when I'd rather use the upgraded EE.

    I think with five new NPC's counting the mystery thief, we should see enough added content at release just from their personal quests. Since they have the most room to work with them, I think we'll see new monsters and areas and items that way...basically what they did in BG1:EE but on a larger scale. I'm really hoping we see Baeloth in BG2 as a NPC, as the mind just runs wild thinking of the possibilities of encounters with some former employees.
  • forbjokforbjok Posts: 31Member
    ghostowl said:

    Things BG2EE NEEDS to do:

    New Storyline.

    Why would it need a new storyline?
    Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn already has a great storyline, and it doesn't really need to be changed.
    I think they should stick to the way they've done it with BGEE, and stay faithful to the original.
    Basically, keep everything the same except for possibly bugfixes, but use the new updated engine.
    Maybe add some new non-intrusive content, like new characters, romances or optional areas/bosses.
    ghostowl said:

    New monsters / New Difficulty

    Games, in general, are considered more enjoyable when its very hard, rather than very easy. Like what Ascension mod and SCSII had done for BG2, BG2EE should drastically make some bosses much harder (especially demogorgon) and Irenicus. I suggest introduction of new monsters that are very challenging. Not only challenging but these monsters should be interesting. Perhaps the drow-spider from IWD series can be brought back here. Or maybe Chimeras, or nine-headed dragons or something.

    I agree that games are in general more enjoyable when they are challenging (many games these days are far too dumbed down and easy), and it is one of the reason I love games like Demon's Souls and Dark Souls.
    However, I don't think the Baldur's Gate games really need to be made harder.
    They are already reasonably challenging games, and are IMO fine the way they are.
    Also, as I said before, I think for the EEs they should stay faithful to the original content, and avoid changing the original content any more than necessary.

    New optional "super bosses" that are harder and more unique are not a bad idea though, as long as they don't interfere with the original experience.
    ghostowl said:

    New Kits

    A HUGE part of replayability for BG2 are the kits themselves. People spend hours trying out new cleric, or new multi-class. I suggest these new kits should be a little bit overpowered, so that people might really be inclined to play them. (If they were underpowered, people would just say, cool, but not play it) Suggestions for new kits would be, a druidic class that has a theme of embracing fire. Perhaps that druid class can cast fireball, sunfire in later levels and have immunity to fire as an advantage. Perhaps even the ability to shapeshift into a dragon at level 30 or something. Or another class like mage that can summon skeletons from dead bodies like real necromancers, and perhaps be able to summon incredibly fearsome demons at higher levels to fight for you.

    While new kits wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, I can't say I see any major need for them.

    ghostowl said:

    New Areas

    Seeing as how many veteran BG2 players complain about how linear the game is, new areas that are interesting (not a bunch of forest maps) would give the game more life and make it seem bigger. Players would be excited to try out new places. But these new areas need to give something to the player in order to attract them. For example, new powerful weapons, or new quests.

    Who actually complains that BG2 is linear?
    Although parts of it are linear (Spellhold, Underdark, etc, until you return to the surface) the main part of the game where you have access to the world map and Athkatla is very much non-linear, and the amount of sidequests and content packed into those areas is immense.

    Adding additional areas and/or sidequests might work though.
    ghostowl said:

    I think doing all things I suggested above would lead to very strong sales for BG2 among PC players. It would polish an already incredible game into something even better. I feel like there were many veteran players that felt alienated and largely ignored for BGEE and thus, did not end up buying the game.

    Personally, I hadn't even heard of BGEE until a few weeks ago, and didn't really know anything about the developer until yesterday. If I had, I probably would have bought it sooner.

    I've had the original Baldur's Gate pretty much since it came out (1999 or so), and have played through it more times than I can count, both with and without TOTSC, and even a few times using Tutu and BGT mods to play it in the BG2 engine.
    I have not yet played all the way through BGEE (only got it late yesterday night), but from what I have seen so far, they have done a very good job of staying true to the original while giving the game a much needed facelift.

    It's also nice that there is now an official addition of things like containers and other items that were originally only found in BG2, even though there were mods that added these in Tutu or BGT before.
    ghostowl said:

    I know it means a lot of work, but it would also ensure fans that the team is more interested in perfecting a legendary game rather than milking a beloved series. BG2EE cannot be given the amount of work that BGEE has been given, especially because the most inticing factors for BGEE was the fact that they brought in a lot of stuff from BG2. I'd like to hear what the community thinks about this. Please add your suggestions as well if you have any.

    It's true that BG2EE probably wouldn't be as huge and update over the original as BGEE, but the updated engine and support for tablets would still be a nice addition.
    I think they should concentrate on engine improvements and bugfixes and minor tweaks to the originale content rather than trying to completely rework it though - maybe add some new optional content. If they changed everything, it would no longer be faithful to the original.

    I'd really like to see completely new games using the updated Infinity Engine at some point though. (maybe Baldur's Gate 3?)
    the_spyderatcDave
  • iam1iam1 Posts: 35Member
    the more content they add, the less it will feel like BG2.

    they don't want to draw away from what the game actually was... just fix it up for modern day (bugfixing) and throw in a tiny bit of added content as a test of their competence
  • NifftNifft Posts: 1,030Member, Beta Tester
    What they really NEED to do is open the game up to modders, and support expanded modding.

    Document stuff for modders. Maybe even create some tools or even just APIs.

    Then, let the free content roll in.
  • ArchaosArchaos Posts: 553Member
    edited February 2013
    What I would like to see and I partially agree with the OP.

    New kits: One new kit for every class. We already got a Paladin kit, so why not more love for other classes?
    Rebalance some of the new upcoming kits like:
    Dwarven Defender (Fighter kit)
    Shadowdancer (Thief kit)
    Dark Moon Monk
    Dragon Disciple (Sorcerer kit)
    Maybe a new Ranger kit (aren't there a couple kits in the game already that weren't implemented?)
    Blighter (Druid kit. Basically an "evil" druid that uses necromancy spells instead of Conjure Animals etc and instead of turning into animals you can turn into weak undead. Think an undead Shapeshifter. Might be overpowered, though. Throwing out ideas.)

    New NPCs: In BG2 we have 1 evil fighter, 1 evil cleric and 1 evil mage. The goodies have a couple of each class. Warriors: Minsc, Mazzy, Keldorn, Valygar. Mages: Nalia, Imoen, Aerie. Priests: Aerie, Good Anomen. Thieves: Imoen, Nalia (crappy one)

    We are already getting an evil warrior (Dorn) but we miss totally an evil Thief (please add Monty) and an evil Mage (Sorcerer would be best). Maybe a Priest of Talos too that more like Anomen, than Viconia? (High STR and CON, low Dex).

    Implement Ascension: Or at least make it an optional install and supported officially. You already added dialogue with other NPCs as part of the new NPC quests. (Edwin has new lines when you find Neera.)

    *Puts helmet on and takes cover* Here's a controversial one:
    Subraces: I know, some are unbalanced etc. But aren't Half-Orcs the same? Aren't Half-Orcs generally better than Dwarves (these might win with the racial bonus but 19 STR is very very good) or Humans, for pure warriors?
    Why not different kinds of elves? (Drow might be too overpowered)
    Aasimar? Tieflings? Duergar?
    Maybe we should take a poll for it as I'm pretty fine both ways.

    New quests and new areas: That goes without saying. The BG2 map has many empty spaces. We can fill it with new areas and quests, or places to meet those NPCs. (Like Valygar, who is out of Athkatla).
    Post edited by Archaos on
  • OzzyBotkinsOzzyBotkins Posts: 264Member
    So far BG1:EE has been great and I am sure BG2:EE is going to be great also
    Here is my personal wishlist for BG2:EE
    make BG2:EE mod friendy
    BG2 had a truckload of mods that could be incorporated into the game
    more options, quests and rewards for evil partys
    bring over the new NPCs ( Dorn and the rest ) and add to their storylines
    more kits, at least 1 for each class
    more wilderness areas ( I missed that from BG1 in BG2 )
    anew stronghold that could be obtained by any class CHARNAME
    either through quest, or moeny or a combo of both
    at least one NPC from one of the " shorty races"
    BG2:EE is going to be great
    atcDave
  • dibdib Posts: 194Member
    edited February 2013
    What BG2EE needs is marketing. I hadn't even heard about BGEE until like a week before the first release date (before it was delayed) and I'm a huge BG fan.
    Post edited by dib on
    forbjok
  • sivistojkosivistojko Posts: 30Member
    No no no. They should leave BG2 in BG2:EE as it is but in the meantime gather all this data and ideas which would be implemented in their long-term goal - BG3.
  • PeccaPecca Posts: 825Member, Beta Tester
    What would attract me most to buy BG2:EE is if it was gonna be much more mod-friendly and convenient. For example if it was possible to search and install mods from main menu etc.

    About expanding content I'd like to see some loose ends to be concluded (hidden, twisted rune...), more areas would also be fine, but I'd really like them not wasting time on standalones like the black pits.
  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Posts: 1,334Member
    BG2:EE ships on PC, iOS, Android, Mac, and Linux at launch, and is relatively bug free, I think it will be a success.

    If I were a betting man I would put money on them targeting all 5 OSes at launch.
  • ShrimpShrimp Posts: 141Member
    I'd like to see more varied and rebalanced HLA's, kinda like what the mod Refinements tried to do: instead of all "combat" classes having Fighter HLA's, for example, it gave paladins, rangers and monks each their own subset (or entirely new ones in the monk's case), with every kit (and even specialist mages) having at least one unique HLA. It makes playing various kits a more unique experience.
  • forbjokforbjok Posts: 31Member
    Pecca said:

    What would attract me most to buy BG2:EE is if it was gonna be much more mod-friendly and convenient. For example if it was possible to search and install mods from main menu etc.

    About expanding content I'd like to see some loose ends to be concluded (hidden, twisted rune...), more areas would also be fine, but I'd really like them not wasting time on standalones like the black pits.

    It would certainly be nice to have mods be more modular, ideally in such a way that each one could be fully contained in their own folder, or better yet, their own archive (.bif or similar) and remove the need for copying stuff to the override folders or patching global files like DIALOG.TLK, but I'm not sure it's something they should be focusing on in BG2EE.
    If they eventually end up making new games using a further developed version of the same engine, then I imagine it wouldn't be too much of a problem to switch over BGEE and BG2EE to use the new engine as long as new versions don't have any functionality taken out (which I can't think of any good reason to do regardless).
  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Posts: 2,092Member
    DinoDin said:

    What BGEE2 needs to do to be successful

    "Things I want in BGEE2"*

    *Fixed.
    FlashburnNifftGodKaiserHellJean_Luc
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Posts: 2,545Member
    edited February 2013
    I wholly and completely disagree with the OP.

    In the first place, BG Tutu gave BG the increased graphics and the kits, so BG:EE didn't do that above and beyond BG:Classic. There are mods fixing some stuff that exists. Pretty much the only thing that BG:EE did that wasn't already done was the bug fixes and the new companions/quests. But that was enough for it to be worth it in my opinion.

    Second, the story is fine as it stands. There is (IMHO) no reason to alter or change the story. Fix one or two things that weren't done, that is fine. But this isn't 'BG2 Reinvisioned". Don't change it.

    As for New monsters etc... There is already a lot in BG2. I don't see a "Need" for new monsters. I'd be OK with some more encounters and maybe a few new areas, but don't 'Fix' it if it ain't broke.

    New 'Kits', again, while it might be nice to have a few more choices, the Devs don't need to go all hog wild and 'Create' new stuff. Even the concept of bringing in 3E stuff and retro-fitting it is abhorrent (to me). There are plenty of choices as it is. And each new kit means a certain amount of rebalancing that needs to happen. Why?

    A few new areas? Sure. A FEW. But there is still plenty of content that exists. No need to go overboard (IMHO).

    All in my opinion. Keep it largely as is. People will buy it. Bug fixes? Great! A few new areas and encounters? Fine. But it is a great game as it stands.
    Post edited by the_spyder on
    atcDaveJTM
  • WilburWilbur Posts: 725Member
    ajwz said:

    What BGEE2 needs to do to be successful?

    Get realeased

    I was going to say this :)

  • Ironmancal2131Ironmancal2131 Posts: 22Member
    I'd like to see a good aligned way to reach Spellhold so I could finally RP a Paladin.
    ghostowl
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Posts: 2,545Member
    To Paraphrase Edmund Burk:

    "All that is necessary for the triumph of BG2:EE is that good men do nothing" to change the game substantially.
    EudaemoniumNifftJames
  • VikingRVikingR Posts: 76Member
    One word - contract limitations
  • NWN_babaYagaNWN_babaYaga Posts: 626Member
    edited February 2013
    I dont have that many ideas how to improve a game like BG2. I played it maybe 4 times and thats a lot of time spent on a game that is so massive and it was always a real flash. There is only one thing that wasnt as immersive or not so cool and that was by the end. Once you finish of bodie the story seems to rush towards to the endfight with Irenicus and that damn difficult elven city oh my. It was full of to tough fights just to stop me from progressing!!! And that hell episode at the end was not of my taste. To much climaxes!

    But another adventure in Athkala, Darnise hold and the underdark hell YEAH!!!
    Post edited by NWN_babaYaga on
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Posts: 3,614Member
    Getting released is the one thing that really needs to happen. It's already a selling point that it is easier to install the game on newer computers. That's the one thing that really matters - my BG1 is a bit wonky on a PC that is set up to handle current games. And that will remain an issue for older software. At some point, you'll need a PC to do everyday stuff - graphic software, new games and so on - and an old PC to play favorite games of the past. If I could pay 20 bucks to make old games run smoothly on my main PC, I'd do that, even - or especially - if they were exactly the same and nothing was changed.

    Bug fixes, sure. Maybe finishing abandoned content that was originally planned, also fine. But changing the story or expanding in it ways that don't really make sense? No way, I wouldn't want that.
    Erg
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Posts: 1,413Member
    Bugfixes and the likes are a must-have, obviously, but I think that's a given.

    Other than that, there's lots of mods that demonstrate what can be improved, namely the difficulty of the game. I doubt that is going into the retail version, though, because Average Joe isn't a powergamer.

    So outside of such tweaks, there's definitely some quests and stories that could be expanded upon. Add more NPC-quests, for example, to give underused characters more room to develop. Add more BG1-style "little" sidequests to breathe some life into Athkatla.

    The biggest thing I could imagine would be an adaptation of the ever-so popular Solaufein mod - he really is a great character and perennial fan-favorite, not to mention a shmexy DROW!

    I'd also love an expansion of the item upgrade system. Gathering things all over the game to craft items is something that adds a lot of longevity to a game, and it could definitely be more pronounced without degenerating into a farm-fest. The Item Upgrade Mod is an example of things that could be done, though perhaps with results that are not quite as powerful...

    As for additional kits, sure, I guess, but I'm personally not too much of a fan of overdoing it there, especially with the NWN-style ones. The Blackguard is imo a great way to go about things, maybe they'll do something similiar with one or two other classes.

    Also, ToB should definitely be included from the get-go, though seeing how TotSC was included in BG:EE I see no reason why it shouldn't be. I wonder how much they can do with the story within the confines of their contract... from what I understand the Ascension mod was roughly how the original team actually planned to develop the story, so maybe, just maybe, there's a little leeway?
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    EudaemoniumSCARY_WIZARDLemernisArchaos
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