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When to dual ranger to cleric

Hi guys, hope this hasn't been asked before. What level should I dual class my ranger to cleric? I am not to fussed about not 'finishing' the dual class in Bgee as she can be a meat shield if nothing else. More interested in bg2 end game. Is it worth holding out for the extra 1/2 apr.
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Comments

  • DeucetipherDeucetipher Posts: 485Member
    @ZanathKariashi nailed it.

    If you want to dual in bg2, 9 maxes warrior hd, and 13 finishes off bonus attacks. Dualing at 13 is a PITA though. As the above said, 7 is a nice sweet spot, nabbing you the first 1/2 attack. Honestly, I'd probably hit 7 then dual, thought you'll only hit cleric 7 in bgee, which means no funky spellcasting in BG1.

    If you don't care about the extra 1/2 attack, just dual at 2, once again like @ZanathKariashi said.

    Since your target is bg2 end game, dualing at 13 is doable, if you don't mind the giant PITA most of BG2 proper will be. Dualing at 13 mean you'll surpass at 2.85 million total xp, just under the cap for bg2.
    Fenghoang
  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Posts: 2,295Member
    Dualling at level 7 rather that 2 also grants you 20 extra HP, assuming 18 CON, 25 HP with 19 CON. And a couple extra proficiencies.
  • leeho730leeho730 Posts: 285Member
    edited January 2013
    Depends...

    In BGEE, you can safely dual at 6th level without losing any cleric level (Ranger 6/Cleric 8).
    In BP, you can safely dual at 8th level without losing any cleric level (Ranger 8/Cleric 10)

    In TOB, Ranger 18/Cleric 30 without losing spells per day, get all quest level spells, max TACH0 (3 vs. 6)
    For max dispel magic power, Ranger 11/Cleric 39 (dispel success 95% against level 30 caster)
    For max attacks per round, Ranger 13/Cleric 37 (85% dispel chance against level 30 caster)



    For BG2 endgame (2,950k experience cap)

    Ranger 11/Cleric 17 (TACH0 10)
    Ranger 13/Cleric 14 (TACH0 8, base attack 2 per round)
    Ranger 8/Cleric 20 (for max spell power, but you lose 2 level-5, 2 level-6 and 1 level-7 spells per day, TACH0 8)
    Ranger 9/Cleric 19 (for max HP bonus, TACH0 8)

    Since the max levels for Rangers in BGEE/BP are 8 and 10 respectively, the best course of action would be to dual at either 8th/9th level or get her all the way to 10th level. 8th level kinda makes sense since you can unlock Ranger levels in BP but you do lose 2-9 extra HP, -1 TACH0 bonus (which disappears at cleric 13th level), 1 extra proficiency slot (which you get back at cleric level 20). Your choice!

    Since most copies of BG2 come with TOB, and once you install TOB the level cap increases to 8,000K in BG2 as well, you might as well dual at 11th or 13th level unless you dual at 18th level to squeeze 3 more TACH0 bonus, +1~+3 HP, one ranger high level ability for your character (provided you're ok with 50% dispel magic success chance against level 30 caster) compared to Ranger 11/Cleric 39 or Ranger 13/Cleric 37. Personally, I would recommend dualling at 13th level for extra 1/2 attack and one more proficiency point.
    Post edited by leeho730 on
    certusrion26
  • mjsmjs Posts: 742Member
  • DinsdalePiranhaDinsdalePiranha Posts: 414Member
    @Pantalion pretty much nailed it, only thing I'd like to add: if you dislike waiting out the 1,5 M xp required for lvl 13, dualing at lvl 9 is also a pretty solid option - it only costs "spare change" xp, gets you 10 extra hit points, one extra prof (like you need it), some other irrelevant things... no extra 1/2 apr however, but it's still better imho than the lvl 7 dual, with very little added downtime.

    but... multiclass is still superior, by far - fighter HLAs, pretty solid spell progression (even more so if you import from BG1 with 21 WIS), and, as the biggest deciding factor: no goddamn downtime. I mean, yeah, ranger 13 -> cleric is nice and all, but playing a big part of SoA as something akin to a paperweight? how about NO.
    mjs
  • UnknownQuantityUnknownQuantity Posts: 242Member
    multiclass does look good as it is able to max out it's thac0 on exactly Ranger level 21 in Throne of Baal. The only downsides I see are (having a high turn undead early in SoA will make things a lot easier. You could always pick up Anomen I suppose. The other downside is the lack of portraits for half elves. You will probably have to make your own if you are a male.
  • leeho730leeho730 Posts: 285Member
    edited January 2013
    There are definitely pros and cons of dual classing and multiclassing in regards to Ranger/Cleric.

    With experience cap of 8,000K (TOB) the max level of Ranger/Cleric multi class is 21/25. 9 Ranger HLAs, 11 Cleric HLAs (but Cleric can only choose up to 9 so it is more than sufficient).


    Dual classing

    The good:
    maximized base HP
    maximized Cleric level for dispel magic success
    Can use kits
    Faster Cleric progression

    The bad:
    Limited or no HLA choice for Ranger
    Lower TACH0 and limited proficiency control than multi class

    Multi classing

    The good:
    20 HLAs!
    Doesn't have to wait until Ranger level gets unlocked for attack bonuses and weapon specialization
    Max TACH0.

    The bad:
    lower dispel magic success
    lower base HP (according to my experiment, you do lose around 30 HP).
    Slower Cleric progression
    No kits.

    Spell power caps at level 20 (save symbol spells that cap at 21) and max spells per day caps at level 22 so other than dispel magic success rate multi class cleric doesn't lose much (if at all) compared to dual class cleric.
    Post edited by leeho730 on
    lunarmjs
  • UnknownQuantityUnknownQuantity Posts: 242Member
    I don't think kits work anyway. With regards to dispel level that is only a concern until you get cleric level 20+ (max level) I believe. Still as I mentioned it can be nice to have a high spell level/turn undead early in SoA when you don't have that good of equipment yet. I believe that is the biggest advantage of the dual class.
  • lDanielHolmlDanielHolm Posts: 225Member
    Sorry, pet peeve. T-H-A-C-0, not "TACH0".
    SirK8
  • leeho730leeho730 Posts: 285Member

    I don't think kits work anyway. With regards to dispel level that is only a concern until you get cleric level 20+ (max level) I believe. Still as I mentioned it can be nice to have a high spell level/turn undead early in SoA when you don't have that good of equipment yet. I believe that is the biggest advantage of the dual class.

    I believe there are three mages (Irenicus, Zallanora, Kangaxx) that are at or above 27th level, most other mages/clerics (Sendai included) are level 20. Once cleric hits 24th level the success rate is 70%, not bad.

    But Turn Undead thing is interesting.... I've used the ability a few times and all it seemed to do was scaring vampires away... Never saw undeads utterly destroyed myself... but it might be useful... sounds like cleric can use similar tricks to bard (invisible singing bard)...
  • UnknownQuantityUnknownQuantity Posts: 242Member
    leeho730 said:

    I don't think kits work anyway. With regards to dispel level that is only a concern until you get cleric level 20+ (max level) I believe. Still as I mentioned it can be nice to have a high spell level/turn undead early in SoA when you don't have that good of equipment yet. I believe that is the biggest advantage of the dual class.

    I believe there are three mages (Irenicus, Zallanora, Kangaxx) that are at or above 27th level, most other mages/clerics (Sendai included) are level 20. Once cleric hits 24th level the success rate is 70%, not bad.

    But Turn Undead thing is interesting.... I've used the ability a few times and all it seemed to do was scaring vampires away... Never saw undeads utterly destroyed myself... but it might be useful... sounds like cleric can use similar tricks to bard (invisible singing bard)...
    On one run in SoA I did most of the side quests before going to bohdies layer. Unfortunately I can't remember what level Anomen was at the time. I think it was in the high teens. He was level up faster then any of my other characters. I guess that is because single class clerics level up so fast after a certain point. When I went into the layer I activated turn undead and even the powerful undead were exploding at times. If not they were at least running away. That was probably the easiest time I've ever had in that area of the game.
  • DinsdalePiranhaDinsdalePiranha Posts: 414Member
    @leehe730: look here, there's a table explaining it: http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/bg/character/classes/tables/turnundead.shtml
    sadly, it only goes up to lvl 14, afaik with a lvl 21 cleric, you can make liches go boom. nice.
    leeho730
  • UnknownQuantityUnknownQuantity Posts: 242Member

    @leehe730: look here, there's a table explaining it: http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/bg/character/classes/tables/turnundead.shtml
    sadly, it only goes up to lvl 14, afaik with a lvl 21 cleric, you can make liches go boom. nice.

    I've never turned a lich before. That would be pretty neat!
  • UnknownQuantityUnknownQuantity Posts: 242Member
    This makes me think of Sandal in Dragon Age 2. Boom!
  • DinsdalePiranhaDinsdalePiranha Posts: 414Member

    @leehe730: look here, there's a table explaining it: http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/bg/character/classes/tables/turnundead.shtml
    sadly, it only goes up to lvl 14, afaik with a lvl 21 cleric, you can make liches go boom. nice.

    I've never turned a lich before. That would be pretty neat!
    yeah, I kinda put on my "the hell just happened?" face when Viconia (who was turned into Aerie at the time, aka cleric/mage) suddenly chucked one at the bottom of Watcher's Keep.

    though turn undead is not nearly as epic as it was in IWD, where in nearly half the areas you could just turn it on, then watch the... khmm... "fireworks" :D
  • MikeMastersMikeMasters Posts: 139Member
    i want to try out a ranger/cleric mainly for the melee buffs, should i dual or multi? i only care about BGEE.
  • moopymoopy Posts: 933Member
    edited January 2013
    @MikeMasters

    I would multi. You get to 7 Ranger / 7 Cleric. Only losing out on one level of the possible maximum of a single class (Ranger 8 or Cleric 8).

    You will get the rangers base 14 thac0 (2 better than a single class Cleric level 8) and 1.5 attacks per round, and Cleric spells all the way up to 4th level just like a pure class Cleric.

    You get 2 points in two weapon fighting for free, I'd put one point in mace, one in war hammer, and one in sling, and the 4th for a second point in one of those 3 weapons. At level 3 and level 6 ranger I'd put the second point in the remaining 2 weapons.

    I'd end up main handing the Stupidfier(Mace top floor of an inn in Beregost) and the Ashadrial(sp) (War Hammer from evil priest south west of Beregost). I only used the sling in the early levels so you might consider putting 2 points to start there and flushing out the melee weapons as you level up.

    Plus with a multi you get to enjoy being both classes at the same time, and progressing in both classes at the same time through the entire game.
    Post edited by moopy on
    MikeMastersTJ_Hooker
  • leeho730leeho730 Posts: 285Member

    i want to try out a ranger/cleric mainly for the melee buffs, should i dual or multi? i only care about BGEE.

    For BG, Ranger 6/Cleric 8.
    For BP, Ranger 8/Cleric 10.

  • DinsdalePiranhaDinsdalePiranha Posts: 414Member
    @MikeMasters: multi. pretty much always multi with ranger/cleric.

    however, if you're just interested in BGEE and melee buffing, 'zerker 3/4 -> cleric might be an even cooler option.
  • moopymoopy Posts: 933Member
    @leeho730

    a 6 ranger / 8 cleric is going to have 1/2 APR less, 1 less thac0 and gain 1 3rd and 1 4th level spell. Those 2 extra spells aren't really important with the ring you get from Mulhey and wisdom bonuses, so you cost yourself 1/2 apr and 1 less thac0 AND (I feel this is the biggest cost) have to get almost to the xp cap to enjoy being both classes. Where as with multi 7/7 you get the APR, the thac0, and get to be both classes the entire game.

    In order for me to want to dual I have to feel like the juice is worth the squeeze to have to work to get both my classes at the same time, and you don't really gain anything from dualing Ranger to Cleric.
    DinsdalePiranhaTJ_HookerMikeMasters
  • leeho730leeho730 Posts: 285Member
    edited January 2013
    Depends. multiclass has definitely advantage of getting many more HLAs than dual class (GWW!), not to mention many players will simply not take some quest level spells.
    Dual class is more for people to squeeze that extra cleric levels for dispel (and turn undead). But I definitely agree that single cleric gets pretty much nothing after level 30, and multi (2-class), around 23.

    And dualing gets kits...

    Archer can put 2 points in sling and ranged hit and damage bonus every 3 levels, and if one decides to dual at level 18 for Ranger18/Cleric30 sling attacks are made at +6 THAC0 +6 damage... For example at 17th level Archer with 18 dex gets base thac0 -4 and can do 15-18 damage with non-magical sling and bullet... And mix with sling of seeking that adds strength damage to sling... It's basically Kensai that shoots bullets... Only one point in melee weapons sucks but then Archer can still put 3 points in two-weapon style... Or grab a large shield....

    Beastmaster gets extra HP and extra summon monsters... but only using club, quarterstaff and sling really sucks... not to mention limited choice of armor... But there are some really good leather armors in BG2/TOB... Summon familiar for extra HP.... Club of detonation +5 is good but can't use CF, FOA or disruption +2.... Darn... Is extra 25-35 HP worth it... I don't know...

    Stalker adds some funky abilities... like backstabbing (but can only use club and quatertstaff)... x4 backstab with plain quarterstaff can get you up to 84 damages with really good strength and crit (two handed weapon style adds crit range).... Or equip CF off-hand and whack them with club for backstab... Maybe it's just me finding "backstabbing high level Cleric" such a funny idea... And can cast improved invisibility for extra AC and haste...

    And dualing generally gets around extra 15 HP.

    I agree that multi is better for powergaming, the only disadvantages being -10~-15 HP and less dispel power, but dual is more fun and adds more flavour if you decide to add kits, IMHO... No GWW/Hardness is real bummer, though...
    Post edited by leeho730 on
    MikeMasters
  • moopymoopy Posts: 933Member
    edited January 2013
    @leeho730

    As it stands now Archers and Stalkers can't dual to Cleric. If I could dual a Stalker to Cleric that would help to change my position in BG2.

    I think Archers and Stalkers are suppose to be able to dual to Cleric and that it is a bug that got brought on by ToB, ot sure though.

    Edit:

    Just tested this, and if it was ever true (not sure why I was thinking it was the case) it certainly isn't the case in BG:EE. Disregard.

    With that in mind a 17 Stalker / 31 Cleric would be awesome (I realize that is a huge time sink but you get 4x backstab that way)

    If you want to be more reasonable with the dual, dual at 13 and you get that extra half an attack, the stalker spells, and 3x backstab.
    Post edited by moopy on
  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Posts: 2,295Member
    @moopy
    You were right in thinking that Archers and Stalkers couldn't dual to Cleric. In BG2, they couldn't dual class at all IIRC. I think I remember reading that this only happened if you installed TOB, so most people figured it was a bug, so they fixed it for BG:EE.
  • leeho730leeho730 Posts: 285Member
    Interesting, I could on my TOB. I guess it may be because I've installed BG2 fix pack....
    TJ_Hooker
  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Posts: 2,295Member
    leeho730 said:

    Interesting, I could on my TOB. I guess it may be because I've installed BG2 fix pack....

    Yup, fixpack corrects this.
  • moopymoopy Posts: 933Member
    I didn't know mods existed until after 2004 when I was more or less done with BG (until now... Thanks Beamdog)
    TJ_Hooker
  • MikeMastersMikeMasters Posts: 139Member
    @leeho730 What exactly is BP? Im guessing some kind of mod for BGEE that also lets you get to higher levels? I googled this and found big picture but only the AI scripts for BGEE so that can't be right?
    Corbredus
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