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Should I bother multiclassing in BGEE?

I've been researching into multiclassing and dual-classing recently, and a lot of the various guilds and builds out there seem to indicate that the real pay-off to dual and multiclassing comes in only at the higher levels, and the at lower levels your character is underpowered compared to a single-class character with the same amount of exp.

So my question is then, given that only BGEE is out and BG2EE isn't out yet... is it worthwhile to multi or dual class? What is the level/exp cap in BGEE anyhow?

If for example, I wanted to be a Fighter/Cleric. By the end of the BGEE, how do I compare to the singleclass Fighter and singleclass Cleric? Will I even have access to the spells that make my multiclass effective, or will that not be until BG2?
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Comments

  • MERLANCEMERLANCE Posts: 309Member
    Fighter/Cleric and Fighter/Thief are probably the ones youll get the most out of at low levels. Avoid anything with "mage" in it like the plague.
  • AlsnAlsn Posts: 97Member
    edited December 2012
    XP cap is 161,000. (this basically means that multi mages cannot reach level 5 spells due to not getting enough XP for level 9)

    Clerics are nice for multi-classing in this game because they get level 4 spells at level 7(55k xp) but won't get level 5 spells even single classed(level 9 is 225k for clerics).
    Post edited by Alsn on
  • RiolathelRiolathel Posts: 322Member
    edited December 2012
    i played through BG three times and my cleric/ranger has been my favorite so far (third run). My cleric/ranger is my best dps so far. I have kagain to tank. Kivan for dps. branwen for heals, and neera imoen for magic. (imoen also for traps).
    Post edited by Riolathel on
  • PantalionPantalion Posts: 1,175Member
    Yes, multiclasses remain awesome in pretty much every variety.

    Fighter/Mage and Mage/Thief both work stupidly well - multi mages end up with level 4 spells and more versatility than most pure classes. Ranger/Cleric is the height of badassery, and even triple classes like the F/M/T are great if you're in a smaller than average party.

    Slow levelling is true, but at the same time it's a myth - At low levels, the Exp needed doubles every level. This means that even though they're cutting their Exp in half across two classes, they're progressing about as quickly as everyone else, just a level or two behind. The initial hurdle from 1-2 is the first, and biggest, one, and a level 1 multiclass has more tools than any pure class gets, and ends up just a point or two behind in each class.
    ChiPsiUpIllustair
  • ChiPsiUpChiPsiUp Posts: 4Member
    Sounds like there is much love for Cleric/Ranger. Can anyone explain to me why they're good? :)
  • ReadingRamboReadingRambo Posts: 524Member
    edited December 2012
    They gain access to both Druid and cleric spells as well as being naturally great at dual wield. In addition, it is easy to roll very good stats for the half elf multiclass as ranger cleric has very stringent ability score requirements.
    The dual class is extremely effective in BG 2 but harder to manage in bgee due to the low xp cap. I always prefer to dual a character at the lowest 7th level for the added warrior attack per round. That isn't possible in bgee if u want the ranger class to reactivate
    Post edited by ReadingRambo on
    Illustair
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Posts: 3,688Member, Beta Tester
    Fighter/Mage can get to level 7/7 in BGEE
  • MacadamiMacadami Posts: 7Member
    ChiPsiUp said:

    Sounds like there is much love for Cleric/Ranger. Can anyone explain to me why they're good? :)

    Well my first BGEE run was with a ranger3/cleric8 dual which allowed me to get 3 in two weapon style, a racial enemy, access to all druid spells, and 2 weapons specialized. A multiclassed Ranger/Cleric would end up being 7/7 with a much higher THAC0 and only 1 less 4th level spell, so really that is the preferred path especially considering no downtime.

    http://playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur's_Gate:_Progression_Charts

  • AlsnAlsn Posts: 97Member
    edited December 2012
    The thing with cleric ranger other than what people have pointed out already(getting druid spells added to their cleric spell list, even ones above level 3 which rangers actually can't cast normally), is that while the druid spell selection in general is just straight up inferior to cleric spells, there are a very few spells that only druids do get that are very powerful. They are unfortunately very high level however, so they don't really apply go BGEE but they definitely will in BG2EE.

    Iron skins, level 5 druid spell, functions pretty much like the mage spell stone skin, and as you can probably imagine would be pretty sweet on a fighter type character(which a cleric/ranger is, since they get ranger attack progression and can specialize). Nature's Beauty, level 7 druid spell, automatically(no save) and permanently blinds all enemies in sight. Other than enemies with high magic resistance and ones immune to blind(extremely few creatures are immune to blind as it works on dragons and even liches) this spell is one of the most powerful in the game and one of the few reasons why being a druid is a viable alternative to being a cleric(clerics are pretty much superior to a druid in almost every other way). There are others, insect plague for example, which are moderately useful too.
    Post edited by Alsn on
    Illustair
  • thedemoninsidethedemoninside Posts: 188Member
    So what it sounds like, is if you remove your XP cap and do a little grinding you will enjoy whatever combo just fine.
  • PantalionPantalion Posts: 1,175Member

    So what it sounds like, is if you remove your XP cap and do a little grinding you will enjoy whatever combo just fine.

    No, F/M/T is perfectly viable as a 6/6/7, and the various duo multiclasses are pretty awesome as 7/7s or better.

    @Alsn - Don't forget Summon Nature's Ally or whatever it's called, the level 4 Druid spell, brings out a Nymph. Nymphs have an arsenal of crowd control spells and Mass Cure to boot, you get a mini Cleric/Mage with a bunch of spells to help out for the cost of a single spell, and it's definitely usable in EE.

    Entangle's useful against crowds of, say, Hobgoblins early on, and if you're outdoors, Call Lightning makes a decent focused attack spell (8D8+1 Lightning damage against a single target twice over ten rounds with a level 7 R/C) and a lot of the nasty fights take place outdoors in BG1.
    Illustair
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Posts: 2,778Member
    edited December 2012
    Level is irrelevant to this game. Multiclasses are actually the best option for the whole series since there's no downtime involved, more freedom with stats, and you're usually only about 1 level behind overall of a single class character. And at higher levels, they're beastly due to access to most or all of their classes HLA.

    A 161,000 xp multi-class (or dualclass), can beat BG2 and ToB...solo (classes depending). Or anyone can with a party of 161000 PC/NPCs. Level above 7 or 8 literally means nothing but more options (you get the majority of your HP during the first 9-10 levels, class depending. Gear and tactics will ultimately be what wins you the day.


    I don't use the R/C because it's an engine exploit. Druids should have an entirely separate spell book, but bioware apparently didn't see that problem till the engine was set. I have no idea how hard it might be to add in a new separate spellbook. If it was easy though, then I think someone would've added it to one of the fixpacks years ago.


    With very few exceptions, a multiclass (or Dualclass) will always be superior to a single class with the same total xp amount. And those exception usually require extremely high level to pay off.
    Post edited by ZanathKariashi on
    AlsnPantalionIllustair
  • PantalionPantalion Posts: 1,175Member
    @ZanathKariashi

    About the only thing Multiclasses aren't superior at is compared to pure spellcasters (even then, pretty much only mages). They get new spells, and whilst spells (including, theoretically, dispels) cap at level 20, they'll pretty much always have more spells available than the multiclass, and access to a higher level of spell to boot.

    Just goes to show how insanely powerful spellcasting is when a few extra high level spell slots outpower entire classes.
    Illustair
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Posts: 2,778Member
    edited December 2012
    They're still superior. Mages get more options yes, but have very limited ammo even at the highest levels and have a major weakness to marathon fights. While you do have the CHANCE to cast unlimited spells at high levels, it's only a chance. And even with 25 int/wis you can still not get that option, if the RNG hates you. Where as a multi-class will simply debuff/buff and murder everything, with spells or without. The Firetooth (dagger) is the best weapon a single class mage gets, and while pretty awesome, it just doesn't compete physically to what a dual/multi can do.

    As someone who's soloed with every class/race combo possible i can say without doubt, that multi's are the easiest, if one half fails, you can rely on the other half. And given that single class plain fighters (or wizard slayers), bards, or druids can still solo the game, high level magic isn't required at all.

    And the shear destruction a single class, high lvl Kensai can cause, is something to behold. They don't blow away the whole room in one shot, but they're only slightly slower then that.
    Post edited by ZanathKariashi on
    PantalionIllustair
  • HooHoo Posts: 100Member
    Multi-classes are always overpowered comparing with Single classes even in the BG1 exp cap.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Posts: 2,778Member
    Still say they should reinstate racial level limits, using the slowed further progression model (levels normally till the class hits the racial limit, then doubles the xp required to progress further). It wouldn't affect BG1 hardly at all, but would make things a bit rougher in BG2 for multi's, as is proper (well proper would be a hard limit, but the slowed progression is a nice compromise)
    RAM021Posvic
  • PantalionPantalion Posts: 1,175Member

    Still say they should reinstate racial level limits, using the slowed further progression model (levels normally till the class hits the racial limit, then doubles the xp required to progress further). It wouldn't affect BG1 hardly at all, but would make things a bit rougher in BG2 for multi's, as is proper (well proper would be a hard limit, but the slowed progression is a nice compromise)

    I was about to hammer my face into the keyboard at the very idea someone might implement the hellishly nonsensical hard cap on Elven mages stopping them from being higher than level 15 mages, before I noticed you were suggesting the delayed progression level, which is almost as bad with an XP cap. By doubling the exp required per level, you're looking at a single classed Elf Fighter capping, in Throne of Bhaal, at level 26, and a single classed Elven Mage capping at level 23. Meanwhile the multiclass F/M/T gets to 15/16/17 and suffers *less*, not more, than the pure classes do, whilst the Human is doing a little jig with a dual classed Kensai 21 > Thief 31.

    The level cap was an unapologetic attempt to make humans the Mighty Whitey of AD&D, I can't say I miss it.
    Illustair
  • IllustairIllustair Posts: 607Member
    edited December 2012
    Not trying to be a troll...but thanks to geniuses talking here, the mediocre me is learning a lot.:D please, go on continue with the talk. xD
    Post edited by Illustair on
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Posts: 2,778Member
    You'd still be getting HLA though, since they're based on total xp gained (3 mil+) rather then actual level.

    Though at the same time, they'd need to add in the lifespan reducing effects of spells (and keep track of character age). Elves could spam their hastes, and wishes and the like with abandon, while poor Edwin, imoen, nalia, or human PC would drop dead after a several attempted wishes, or a saga of spamming non-improved haste or potions of speed with abandon.

    THAT was why there were level caps. Humans had unlimited potential, but a very short time to do it in. And unless you went to lichdom or found an extremely rare fountain of youth, or the DM was a wuss and adding easily made age reduction potions, humans wouldn't get truly powerful since the most powerful magics would greatly shorten their lives.
  • revaarrevaar Posts: 160Member


    I don't use the R/C because it's an engine exploit. Druids should have an entirely separate spell book, but bioware apparently didn't see that problem till the engine was set. I have no idea how hard it might be to add in a new separate spellbook. If it was easy though, then I think someone would've added it to one of the fixpacks years ago.

    Even barring the Druid spells, ranger/Druid is superior in every way to fighter/cleric, thanks to the free two weapon fighting and racial enemy. Also, in BG:EE, there is not a whole lot of Druid spell book exploit, as rangers do get Druid spells up to third level, and you'll only be casting up to third level spells.

    In general, I look at dual/ multi classing for my PC's in one of three ways:
    1: high level dual. Going as high as you can in your initial class while still being able to get your abilities back, or going as high as you can and not losing potential levels in the second class. This is the most powerful option by endgame, but you'll suffer a bit in the middle there.
    2: low level dual. Dualing at level 2 or 3 of your initial class. This basically gives you a flavored version of you second class, like Nalia for example, who basically functions as a Mage with thief weapons. While not overly powerful, there is less downtime, so it ends up a bit more fun.
    3: Multiclassing. The least powerful of these three options. I also find it the most fun, as there is no downtime. Saying it is the least powerful is like saying it is the shortest giant. While not as powerful as the dual classes, it is still better than a single class.

    It is also worth noting that abusing the dual class system is the only way to reach grand mastery.
  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Posts: 1,334Member
    MERLANCE said:

    Fighter/Cleric and Fighter/Thief are probably the ones youll get the most out of at low levels. Avoid anything with "mage" in it like the plague.

    My fighter mage has the highest kill % in my party. Take that Minsc and your +2 2 hander!

  • MadhaxMadhax Posts: 1,416Member
    MERLANCE said:

    Fighter/Cleric and Fighter/Thief are probably the ones youll get the most out of at low levels. Avoid anything with "mage" in it like the plague.

    Like @bigdogchris mentioned, a fighter/mage is quite powerful in BG1. I'm not sure why you recommend steering away from them.

    The main downside of mages in BG1/BGEE is that they don't get their highest level of magic under the XP cap, and they have very little combat prowess to remain relevant in a fight when they're out of spells. A fighter/mage, however, easily makes up for this deficiency by being effective fighters with or without spells. They can be deadly with a bow from the back, or they can toss up Mirror Image and mix it up in melee.

    Plus, a F/M multiclass is one of the strongest level 1 class options in BGEE thanks to Find Familiar, as they start with the highest possible HP. This makes a lot of the potential threats against low-level PCs irrelevant.
  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Posts: 1,334Member
    edited December 2012
    At lower levels the FM with Armor and familiar (for HP) were on par with the rest of my group. At higher levels it's becoming more apparent that he's not a fighter but the +3 stick and the high rate of fire from the crossbow is helping.

    The main reason I made a fighter mage is because Wizards have a lot of nice utility spells that are hard to use on your primary since the primary I use mostly for damage spells. There's not enough spell slots for everything on one char so the FM makes up for the deficiency.

    Tell you what though I really am starting to not care for Wizards and their restrictions. In my old age I'm doing much better at using a variety of spells rather than just brute force. Having the restrictions of wizards and spells per day is an irritant. It would be nice to have a Sorcerer in the party.
    Post edited by bigdogchris on
  • SirCumferenceSirCumference Posts: 35Member
    I get bored of the limited spell selection of the sorcerer. I like to be able to play around and cast other spells if I get bored.
    RnRClown
  • KurumiKurumi Posts: 456Member

    They're still superior. Mages get more options yes, but have very limited ammo even at the highest levels and have a major weakness to marathon fights. While you do have the CHANCE to cast unlimited spells at high levels, it's only a chance. And even with 25 int/wis you can still not get that option, if the RNG hates you.

    Well.. there are more ways to get "endless" spells.. not "Wish", only!
  • SedSed Posts: 520Member
    A multiclass or dual class combo of fighter/cleric is a powerful thing indeed. Draw Upon Holy Might will give you amazing stats and you can truly be a devastating fighter, as well as good caster.
  • RiolathelRiolathel Posts: 322Member
    edited December 2012
    Sed said:

    A multiclass or dual class combo of fighter/cleric is a powerful thing indeed. Draw Upon Holy Might will give you amazing stats and you can truly be a devastating fighter, as well as good caster.

    You can also get DUHM if youre a good aligned character.. My cleric/ranger currently has 2 DUHM bhaalspawn abilities from being chaotic good. Even if i was evil i would still get it though..

    Also if you play a fighter/mage you can go with a relatively low strength score.. (id say about 12). THen boost to 18/50 with the strength spell.. then DUHM with bhaalspawn abilities for a nice 20 strength (even more at higher levels)

    Chunking enemies with a non-magical quarterstaff quite nicely

    Post edited by Riolathel on
  • SedSed Posts: 520Member
    @Riolathel
    True, but you only get them very late in the game, chapter 6 and 7.
    And unless they fix it for BG2EE, you will lose them for the Slayer form.
  • TressetTresset Posts: 3,014Member, Moderator, Beta Tester
    edited December 2012
    Fighter/thief is my favorite class in the game! They backstab with the power of a fighter. It can do up to about 50 damage in one hit! Then just run around a corner and hide again. Repeat for even more fun!
    (however the stalker can do similar things and is single classed)
    Post edited by Tresset on
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Posts: 2,778Member
    Most of which are exploits I'm trying to have fixed, if at all possible.
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