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Fewer enemies in BG:EE (WILL BE FIXED NEXT PATCH)

catfishcatfish Posts: 31Member
edited January 2013 in Fixed
Cleared the firewine bridge dungeons the other night and it was way easier than i remember.Seemed to be far less kobold commandos.In another forum a poster mentioned the game has far fewer enemies and that this may be a bug.Any truth to this rumour?


edit by @Nathan: check my post on the last page for more info.
Post edited by Jalily on
Sambucca
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Comments

  • PyroPatPyroPat Posts: 35Member
    There seems to be a bit few monsters throughout the dungeons and wilderness areas such as firewind bridge, ulcaster ruins and so on. There seems to be monster pools missing at some points and too few monsters in other points.

    Expected behavior: Monsters where they should be in the right amount.

    I do not know if this is actually a bug or a bug fix from the old game, just thought i should mention it. In Ulcaster ruins i am used to meet around 4 groups of dire wolves and dread wolves if i remember correctly and usualy between 2 and 6 of each type. When i played through it now i met 1 dread wolf. (i met the other monsters as it should be - slimes, spiders and vampiric wolf)
  • xxxsmb1987xxxxxxsmb1987xxx Posts: 275Member
    I noticed that as well fewer enemies as has another user.
  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Posts: 5,507Member, Moderator, Developer, BG:EE Beta
    Enemies are scaled by party level.
    xxxsmb1987xxxrderekpKirinaldololien
  • TanthalasTanthalas Posts: 6,738Member, BG:EE Beta
    Well, two things here:

    - Although BGEE's random encounters do scale with level as in BG1, the behavior is not exactly the same so there will be differences between the two.

    - Did you guys last play BG1 using either TuTu or BGT? Their scaling system causes a lot more monsters to appear.
    xxxsmb1987xxxKirinaldo
  • xxxsmb1987xxxxxxsmb1987xxx Posts: 275Member
    @Tanthalas my last playthrough was with TUTU installed I havent played the original in years lol
  • PyroPatPyroPat Posts: 35Member
    I have no idea if my last playthrough was with tutu or bgt, i dont realy know what it means :P but i played it through with the original a long time ago and a year or so ago with "BG the original saga" - a relaunch or so i guess.

    I realise that the random monsters are scaled to party level, but so are they in the older versions too, and i met a lot more monsters

    Im not complaining, just wondering if it is a bug or if this is how it is suposed to be?

    It felt good to run through firewine with almost no kobold encounters :P last time i was there i had to hurl fireballs and sneak attack around every corner. Not sure if i miss it or not :P
    Fathuran
  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Posts: 1,930Member, BG:EE Beta
    I've almost exclusively played vanilla and even then the monster 'groups' seems quite small. Running into 1 wolf or 1 xvart has felt a bit odd. I could have sworn they attacked in packs most of the time.
    ChrisYuiJason_SilverainelminsterAdul
  • Jason_SilverainJason_Silverain Posts: 38Member
    Yes I've noticed this too, the gnoll fortress is usually wall to wall filled with gnolls. In my current game there were 3 pairs of gnolls with 2 groups of 4 at the end, hardly any compared to the original.
  • ShandyrShandyr Posts: 2,689Member, BG:EE Beta
    I can confirm this for "Peldvale". In original BG1 there used to be groups of 4 - FOUR - blacktalon elites.
    Now these groups consist of only ONE blacktalon elite.
  • PyroPatPyroPat Posts: 35Member
    would it perhaps be possible to make the difficulty level reflect on how many monsters there are around the world?
    I kinda feel like i am playing in easy mode even thogh my slider is set to core rules (i take a lot of damage when hit thogh)
  • ShandyrShandyr Posts: 2,689Member, BG:EE Beta
    My slider is set on INSANE (far right), yet I experience this as well.
  • Son_of_ImoenSon_of_Imoen Posts: 893Member
    Glad I'm not the only one who got annoyed by it. I've only been to Nashkel thus far, I thought it was a feature of the first map only, but it was really easy to survive going to Nashkel. I would have to reload to save my hide several times before getting to Nashkel in Tutu. Only 1 gibberling, xvart or bandit feels real cheesy. The only group of substance I've met thus far are the hobgoblins at the campfire by the road north of Nashkel, nowhere else was there any danger.
    Fathuran
  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Posts: 5,507Member, Moderator, Developer, BG:EE Beta
    Yeah, i guess the solution would be to tune the engine a bit and toughten up for insane difficulty.
    The levels were tuned for normal/casual play, but i guess anyone playing on highest difficulty will expect some tough battles.
  • ShandyrShandyr Posts: 2,689Member, BG:EE Beta
    Okay next one: Firewine Bridge Ruins Catacombs: There was a room which was filled in original BG1 with lots of Kobold Commandos - that number was reduced to TWO kobold commandos.

    And all in all there are less of them anyway than in original BG 1.
    Aasimar069
  • ShandyrShandyr Posts: 2,689Member, BG:EE Beta
    edited December 2012
    Uhm actually I think single Blacktalon Elites standing in Peldvale alone dont make any sense either...
    They're supposed to be in small groups...
    Post edited by Shandyr on
    ChrisYuiFathuranelminsterSpaceInvader
  • ShandyrShandyr Posts: 2,689Member, BG:EE Beta
    edited December 2012
    Yes much less Xvarts in the village.

    And I agree with what you said about the Blacktalons Elite.
    I play on INSANE and they are a joke because there is always only 1 of them, whereas a group of them would prove a challenge even on normal difficulty in original BG1.
    Post edited by Shandyr on
  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Posts: 1,930Member, BG:EE Beta
    edited December 2012
    @Shandyr
    From what you've said, I've gone and mapped out Peldvale enemies. I too remember blacktalon elites messing up my party there so much that I had to rest mid-way through the map sometimes.

    Peldvale on Core difficult

    Red = 1 blacktalon elite (6 total for the entire map!)
    Light blue = 3 gibberlings
    Purple = 1 bear (2 total)
    Yellow = 2 bandits
    Green = 1 huge spider

    Something must have happened with enemy number reduction. Six blacktalon elites for the entire map of Peldvale just feels wrong. From memory of BG1 vanilla, there were probably 12 to 16 blacktalons before... they were in groups of 3 or 4.


    @ChrisYui
    At first I didn't think anything about coming across the first 1 or 2 solo xvarts, but after a few times it just felt strange.


    @Icallhimlecobra
    Hey I met a dire wolf outside of Candlekeep too! Made me jump. :D I managed to kill it because blindness is the best spell ever. :)
    Post edited by typo_tilly on
    ShandyrFathuranAristillius
  • junk11junk11 Posts: 110Member
    edited December 2012
    I check the area file in both BGEE and BG1..
    they have the same maximum spawned creatures in each spawn point
    eg. normally Diseased Gibberling, wolves in ARE2800 should have maximum spawned creatures of 4~6
    (the map south of Friendly Arm Inn)

    there is a difference value between two files, encounter difficulty, many of the spawn scripts have 60 in new BGEE as to single digit value in BG, but i doubt that's the problem..

    my guess is that the spawn script is not reading "maximum spawned creature" value correctly
    hmm..need to dig deeper than this :/

    UPDATE: the game did read the maximum spawned value correctly :P
    Post edited by junk11 on
  • PyroPatPyroPat Posts: 35Member
    I think basicaly all areas have ben a bit "nerfed" wether this is intentional or not i cannot tell. But i notce that random encounters between maps have fewer monsters too, and in cloakwood when you wove to the mines and encounter 2 wyverns, didnt there use to be 3 or 4 etercaps there too?

    I notce that the non-random enemies that always are there, are as they should be - like the baby wyverns, bears, spiders and so on. But I encounter fewer places on each map with mosters compared to the original bg1.
    I did however notce that Talsoi or what they are called seemed to spawn correctly in groups of 6-8 in the cloakwood

    I think that adjusting the number of spawned monsters to the difficulty slider would be a good way to go, this way players that just want to breeze through the game could set it to easy, and people that wants lots of fighting can set it to insane
  • junk11junk11 Posts: 110Member
    edited December 2012
    I did more experiments...
    and ye.. i think they intentionally tone down the spawn number in lower level..
    or should i say they fixed it?
    the number of spawn monsters in one location does increase with you party level as well as rest encounter
    (up to the max spawn value of that location)
    Post edited by junk11 on
    Avenger_teambgGriegKirinaldo
  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Posts: 5,507Member, Moderator, Developer, BG:EE Beta
    Yes, the tone down was intentional. But i think it could be raised for very hard difficulty.
  • BollywoodHeroBollywoodHero Posts: 36Member

    Yes, the tone down was intentional

    baldurs gate: lame edition. haha. but seriously, this is just going to make @davidw job more difficult with SCS. overhaul, wtf?
    sazalandZarathustra
  • Sese79Sese79 Posts: 478Member
    edited December 2012
    It is very not good for the balance. You will have 1/3 of the XP as you reach the final bosses... :(
    We noticed this too very quickly: we used to meet 3x more Bears in the beginning. At Assault Site and Lion's Road we met more monsters before. There are few monsters for multiplayer games too. My wife said that she loves that, but I loved more fights, and don't want to loose any XP. ;)
    Please redo it. Thanks.
    Post edited by Sese79 on
    Zarathustra
  • Sese79Sese79 Posts: 478Member
    edited December 2012
    The overall gaming time reduces too. Just retone up a little, please. You will remember more on the Areas, if you had to fight for it. Thanks.
    Post edited by Sese79 on
  • sazalandsazaland Posts: 25Member

    Yes, the tone down was intentional. But i think it could be raised for very hard difficulty.

    What? I don't want double damage rolls, I just want the spawn density. If it's really unacceptable to make everyone go through original spawns then just make it a separate checkbox like Icewind Dale's Heart of Fury mode.

    Also, scaling the spawn density based on level isn't how it worked in BG1: it was based on party size. So that you wouldn't get swarmed running out with just Imoen to grab Viconia or Shar-Teel or something.
    The_New_RomanceZarathustra
  • junk11junk11 Posts: 110Member
    edited December 2012
    @sazaland
    Sorry, I should have said the number of spawn is based on level "and" party size,
    the effect of party and level take larger part in the calculation in BGEE,
    which mean you should have same difficulty around mid~high level with full party,
    just not low levels like 1~3

    however, due to my poor skill, i cannot give u the correct formula on how the game calculate it :/
    Post edited by junk11 on
  • Sese79Sese79 Posts: 478Member
    edited December 2012
    The monsters were cut out because of cost efficiency reasons? ;)
    Post edited by Sese79 on
    Son_of_Imoenelminster
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